Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II



  • @antipodean said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    I wouldn't have batted second at Manuka Oval...

    As Ian Smith said at the start: deny the opposition what they want. Australia ALWAYS want to bat first unless there is some blue moon reason not to.



  • @shark That's a much stronger looking side. I'm not sure Henry is a lock though - when is Mitch M due back?

    For the 3rd ODI id bring Nichols in for Munro - Ferguson in for Henry and potentially Astle in for CDG - Astle is in the squad - might as well see what he has got.



  • This has to be one of the weakest ODI sides we've put out in 20 years isn't it? The middle order is abysmal, the middle over bowlers are terrible...

    Jeez its shithouse. And this is an Aussie side SA just thrashed 5--0. Its really tough to see any fix, I mean its pretty much our top side - or rather the one Shark named is, and thats still pretty fricking poor anywhere other than Queenstown. Add to that half our "ok" side are permanantly injured (Milne, Mitch, Neesham, Anderson)



  • @Crucial said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    We are really missing a Vettori like bowler aren't we. Someone to take some pace off any momentum that is building. Instead we just keep dishing up overs that can be attacked.
    In the light of the chase required this isn't a bad batting effort. Take away some of the need to slog and it would probably be a pretty good score.

    Where is Grant Elliott?



  • @canefan

    http://www.espncricinfo.com/newzealand/content/story/993971.html

    Retired last April.

    And his runs per over were pretty bad -

    http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/44956.html?class=2;template=results;type=bowling;view=innings

    Theres a LOT of 1 over for 10 & off in there, he wasn't exactly our middle overs safety. I'd rather have Neesham.



  • I think it's great that we have been trying to find tweakers for test cricket but are there really no accurate slow bowlers out there in NZ? The kind of guys that may get found out once an over and hit for 4 but end up 10 overs for 40-50.



  • @Crucial

    What we would give now for a 7-8 of Chris Harris & Gavin Larsen. Gavin Larsen would have about 6 varities of slower off cutters if he was playing now.



  • What are everyone's thoughts on the keeping situation? Ronchi is written off. I love Watling in tests but he's not much of an ODI player and he's also into his 30s so doesn't have any long term upside either. I don't think there's a standout limited overs wicket keeper-batsman out there at the moment, so I think we've got two batsmen in the squad who have kept wicket before in Latham and Nicholls so why not hand one of them the keeping duties. Neither are dead certs in the side but Latham is relatively secure and the more experienced of the pair so he would be my choice. This is also tremendous for the balance of the side.



  • @antipodean said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    I wouldn't have batted second at Manuka Oval...

    I thought that was a very odd call by Kane when he won the toss. Why would you ever allow Australia the opportunity to have first crack at a belter of a pitch and get runs on the board? Especially when our bowlers are struggling?
    As others have said, two very limp performances by a weak assed lineup. Honestly, I wouldn't have minded two losses if we had fought hard and got within 50. But two by over 100 runs is disgraceful, and also demonstrates how shit our bowling has collectively been (although in the first game it was more the fucking awful fielding). Congrats, Black Caps. You have played the Aussies back into form.



  • But batting first was the reason we lost the world cup final .....? according to some cry babies.

    Im getting confused. Surely bowling first here meant an ironclad win?



  • Batting first or bowling first, doesn't really matter. You just have to do it a lot fucken better then what we did.
    700 runs from 100 overs bowled is embarrassing



  • Who are the cry babies blaming the CWC loss on batting first? Always bat first in Australia...

    Still feels sour and bitter the next morning... though at least the bowlers can open an award winning bakery when they get home.



  • @Donsteppa said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    Who are the cry babies blaming the CWC loss on batting first? Always bat first in Australia...

    Still feels sour and bitter the next morning... though at least the bowlers can open an award winning bakery when they get home.

    Some on here, can't remember who.
    It's more a revisionist stick to beat baz, than an intellectually honest argument.



  • Sooo two games two pretty resounding losses. Looks bad but there is one or two positives we can take...

    Positves

    Guptill. Was all over Starc and Hazelwood, who are probably the best opening combo going around at the moment. Smacking Starc around is no mean feat and he looked comfortable doing it. He's in for a big summer in the shorter forms, and IMO should be selected at 5 in the tests (he's a fuckload better than Nicholls).

    Yeah OK not many big positives but some semi-positives:

    Neesham. Looked very assured at 4, and when Rosco returns he should be our 5. Showed he can play a sensible innings against quality bowling, and when he gets his eye in he's one of the cleanest hitters going around.

    Kane. First match failure but he was all class last night for his 81. Just ran out of partners in the end. We expect Kane to do well so this is a bit of a given, but it's still good to see.

    Santner. For all the talk of missing Vettori, Santner bowled 19 overs for 87 runs (4.6 RPO) and took one wicket. Pretty good return given the scores Aussie posted. A couple more wickets would be great but when bowlers are bleeding runs at the other end it's pretty hard to build any pressure.

    Negatives

    Pretty much the rest of the team.

    Munro and CDGH - not international quality. Happy to smack shit bowling but struggle against quality opposition.
    BJ - as Shark says it would probably be a good idea to throw Latham the gloves and play an extra batsmen. But who is that extra batsmen? If Munro is the next in line we are pretty thin there.
    Henry - I had big man-love for him in the past but he was dire. Half volley after half volley to Marsh was some pretty stupid bowling. Handy with the new ball but he needs to add some variation to his bowling if he wants to succeed in the shorter forms. Southee still well ahead of him in ODIs.
    Latham - looked out of sorts at the top of the order. He's a class player so should be perservered with but he was disappointing, just needed to hang in there with Guppy for the first 10 - 15 overs.

    Biggest Negative

    The sloppy as fuck fielding, letting the Aussie top order off the hook. This is a part of our game where we have made up for a lack of talent with an awesome work ethic in the field. Baz used to lead the way in this regard, but it has been going downhill since his retirement. We cannot afford to give guys like Smith lives, he will make us pay every day of the week. This should be the focus for Kane and Hesson in the coming weeks.

    Overall a pretty disappointing effort, with some flashes of brilliance thrown in to keep it kind of respectable. We're missing players to injury, which given our depth we can't really afford, and as Shark shows with the 11 he posted we can put up a pretty competitive team when everyone is fit. Hopefully we get a few of those guys back over the summer.

    I don't think I'd change much for the final match. Probably just Ferguson for Henry to give him another taste of international cricket. But given the squad we have over there, there's not much we can do. Except fucking field better!



  • @Crucial said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    I think it's great that we have been trying to find tweakers for test cricket but are there really no accurate slow bowlers out there in NZ? The kind of guys that may get found out once an over and hit for 4 but end up 10 overs for 40-50.

    I don't think anyone in world cricket has accurate slow bowlers, really? At least there is no bowler who can keep it to 4 runs an over long term. Besides, Santner has just bowled 19 overs for something like 87 runs in this series so he is well below 5 runs in an over. I think only Tahir, Narine and Shakib can do that job in ODI's. Santner isn't as good as them because he isn't very dangerous but his accuracy is good.



  • @shark said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    We'll need to make some changes for our next series. Safe are Guptill, Williamson, Boult and Southee. To that you can probably add Henry and Santner. Obviously Taylor is an in, which solves the top order depth issue. Anderson may also return. Neesham has shown me enough with the bat to suggest he might be the guy at five, but in my top team I have a specialist batsman there. We should be able to jettison Munro and the outclassed CDG. For mine, Watling isn't a ODI keeper and it's time we either gave the gloves to Latham and then played an extra batsman lower down, or we need to unearth a keeper who can belt it at around 7 or 8. Sodhi has to come back into the squad and I think Nicholls should be persevered with.

    Based on what I've seen in the series and what I already knew, my top ODI XI if all fit, would be:

    Guptill
    Latham wk
    Williamson
    Taylor
    Nicholls
    Neesham
    Anderson
    Santner
    Henry
    Southee
    Boult

    Having Latham as keeper has some merit. I don't think it is worth doing to fit Nicholls into the side, however.

    That bowling attack, IMO, is simply not going to be successful. You are basically picking 3 strike bowlers. They all want the new ball and all of them can be tonked at the death. We need to pick two of those guys and then we need to pick one player who does something a little different. That could be pace (Ferguson, Milne) or it could be whatever you call McClenaghan's bowling. I don't much like picking an express quick if that is all they have to offer. I think express pace goes for too many at the death.



  • If we needed another specialist bat Tom Bruce is an option. He's a big hitter for sure - probably similar to Munro.



  • I agree with most of what this guy says. I really miss the old Aussie commentating team. They couldn't go on forever, but their replacements to a man are fucking shithouse. I can't stand pretty much all of them. Tubby can be OKish but is influenced by who is in the box with him. They just talk so much fucking rubbish it becomes hard to listen too. I enjoyed it more with them muted, which sucks because their job is to add to the sport, not detract from it.



  • @hydro11 said in Aus v NZ -Chappell Hadlee series II:

    If we needed another specialist bat Tom Bruce is an option. He's a big hitter for sure - probably similar to Munro.

    Bloody hell that kid is striking at 136 in List-A. Looks like a pretty impressive start to his first class career, could be worth a shout at some stage over summer. IMO we need to get guys like this early and iron out any flaws in their technique. No point leaving him plundering domestic attacks for years and then promoting him when it's too late to fix any deficiencies that would be exposed at the next level up.



  • For a while I got annoyed by Lawy's bias, but eventually found that he just loved great cricket - and it was usually Aussie playing it when he was commentating at home. Jacob Oram scored a ton to bring us home against Oz in Oz approx 10 years ago and no-one loved it more than Lawry.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to The Silverfern.com was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.