Deluded or Messiah



  • Paul Cully fluffs Michael Cheika

    I have various theories about this:

    1. Cully actually believes this and represents a strong base of opinion among Australian rugby supporters who believe that Cheika IS The Messiah.
    2. The ARU desparately need some positivity in print about Cheika as they can't afford to fire him.

    It's great that some Aussies think their glass is half full but frankly I don't buy any of it.

    Let's look at it as if their glass is half empty.

    What Cully is heralding as fantastic performances against the All Blacks were both losses.

    They were poor in Sydney only showing any sort of resistance after the All Blacks were 48 points clear. Half of the points they scored then were fluked not fought for.

    In Dunners they were outplayed for 75% of the game and managed to blow what should have been a match winning lead, again on the back of two ridiculously lucky tries, and another lead with 3 minutes left. The closeness of the score masked the thrashing they took.

    Further, under Cheika ...

    Have a record barely above 50/50

    ... this year
    They have lost at hime to Scotland sans Lions.
    Struggled past Fiji and Italy
    Lost twice - quite badly in my opinion - to the ABs

    Last year...
    Lost 5 in a row (6 actually if you count the last game of the year before)
    Lost 4 times to England
    Lost 9 of 15 overall

    In 2015...
    In a masterstroke of coaching they deliberately lost the 2nd Bledisloe match
    Got lucky to scrape past Scotland

    Why am I down on Cheika? Dunno. It's not like it's unusual for me to dislike Aussie coaches ( Dwyer) but he is particularly unlikeable. But I would like Aussie rugby to be better (whilst still losing to us).

    I'd like Super Rugby and especially the Wobblies to squeeze a word in amongst the NRL and aerial ping pong hype. They're not going to do that while they're losing. And by persisting with Cheika I'm convinced they'll continue to do so.

    Why? Because I believe he is delusional. He does not seem to be able to accept anything going against him. Thus he can't or won't identify what is wrong to fix it. He's the victim and by extension hus team is.

    I also think this delusion is reflected in opinions like that in Cully's article.

    My 2c



  • As long as he is producing results.. I'm happy with him being coach. And so far, he is producing some great results for the ABs.



  • Simple test, when Aussie were good they didn’t celebrate close loses.

    And the Clowns record doesn’t lie, it doesnt compare well to even Greg Smiths, and teams were better back then.

    That Cully guy comes across a bit clueless.



  • That's it isn't it. You know Aust rugby is going down the drain when they are celebrating losing the Bledisloe for a 15th year in a row because they "didn't give up" while doing it.

    The series is gone and they are staring down the barrel of a year that is just as bad as last year having lost 3 games already.

    I just can't fathom how anything they have done this year can be seen as a success. It's tier 2 stuff being satisfied with losing.

    Weird article too, he claims Clown is the perfect guy to rebuild the wallabies while also acknowledging he was the one that was in charge while the ship ran aground. Should start calling him teflon clown.



  • @pukunui said in Deluded or Messiah:

    You know Aust rugby is going down the drain when they are celebrating losing the Bledisloe for a 15th year in a row because they "didn't give up" while doing it.

    Who is celebrating? I think somewhere between what Cully has printed, and how booboo is interpreting it, and how you're interpreting all of the above, you're missing something.

    Most of the people I've spoken to are happy that our most recent 120 minutes of Bledisloe Rugby in 2017 wasn't the absolute shit-show that the first 40 was, but nobody I know is talking about turning a corner or some miracle elevation of rugby across all levels. There was marked improvement, but it just poses more questions i.e. why the fuck didn't we have a warmup game?

    As for replacing Cheika: who with? Nobody in Australian Rugby is ready, and who from overseas would want the job? Or be suitably qualified?

    All reports are that the players love Cheika as well, so it would be a fairly unpopular decision to move him on.

    But fans here are somewhere between ropeable (Perth), and outraged (Queenslanders who won't give up on Quade and still are livid over McKenzie being flicked) to despondent (the rest of us - except Brumbies fans who are both just happy they made the finals) at what is going on in rugby here. Look at this shit:

    https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2017/09/01/05/13/connolly-reds-court

    The Queensland Rugby Union has been ordered to pay former Wallabies and Queensland Reds coach John Connolly $150,000 in damages after he was sacked as a coaching consultant.
    
    Connolly launched legal action against the QRU after he was dumped in July 2015, six weeks into a $3000-a-week job he expected to last until the end of the 2016 Super Rugby Season.
    
    Brisbane District Court Judge Ian Dearden on Friday ordered QRU to pay Connolly $150,000, with calculations for interest and costs to be determined at a later date.
    
    The legal action centred around the termination conditions of the consultancy role, for which there was a verbal agreement and three contracts.
    
    But none of them were signed by both parties, the court heard in August.
    
    Connolly was coach of the Queensland Reds between 1988 and 2000 and the Wallabies from 2006 to 2007.
    
    His legal representatives indicated they would be seeking costs on an indemnity basis.
    


  • I'm sure players must love a coach who finds no fault with them.



  • He's just a nasty kebab store owner. Just a ghastly human being. Imagine if he was actually good ? ( shudder )



  • @MN5 said in Deluded or Messiah:

    He's just a nasty kebab store owner. Just a ghastly human being. Imagine if he was actually good ? ( shudder )

    Then he probably wouldn't be so obnoxious



  • And stories about how good he is may be valid



  • Being popular with the players is not something I'd put high on a list of positives for a coach.
    It should read "popular with the people he selects for higher honours and therefore higher income and more tests on their cv when they head north".



  • @jegga if you want to narrow your viewpoint, sure.



  • I think a coach does need to be popular with the players. He is essentially the boss and who works hard for a boss they despise? I know I respond to leaders/coaches a hell of a lot better if I like/respect them.



  • @Crazy-Horse unpopular coaches don't last long unless you're winning e.g. Jake White.

    If we're equating "popular" to "guy who gives me test rugby dollars via the very nature of selection" then EVERY national coach is popular.



  • @jegga said in Deluded or Messiah:

    Being popular with the players is not something I'd put high on a list of positives for a coach.

    According to Snake, Hammett was popular with the Canes players. AND he improved the team culture



  • I'm certainly no fan of Chieka's demeanour but, that aside, I wouldn't be sacking him on results.

    When the Oz Super teams have gone 0-26 against the NZ ones, it's pretty hard to see that they're going to be putting a team of superior players together. Now, the first 40 minutes of the first Bledisloe was a total shit show, but after that Oz has been quite competitive.

    Reality for Australia is that since about 2004, we've had a better test team. they've burgled a few results here and there, but it's bloody hard for a coach to win when he doesn't have the cattle and the opposition coaches are better than competent.

    If I was Australian rugby, I'd pretty much do exactly the same as I've recommended for years for NZ Cricket - i.e. for NZ Cricket don't base any selection decisions on what happens against Australia.

    For the Wallabies, don't base any decisions on what happens against the ABs.

    Judge Chieka on results against all the other opponents.



  • @Chris-B. So if we set aside results to a team played most frequently he still has losses to England 5, France 1, Ireland 2, Scotland 1, and South Africa 1.

    Those are pretty poor results.



  • since 2015, Aus have a 57% record v NH teams and a 55% record v SH teams, although that is skewed somewhat with the games v NZ...but then the v SH opponents includes Uruguay and Fiji x 2.

    TBF, he probably is the best they have right now, but I still think he is a bit of a knob



  • @Nepia said in Deluded or Messiah:

    @Chris-B. So if we set aside results to a team played most frequently he still has losses to England 5, France 1, Ireland 2, Scotland 1, and South Africa 1.

    Those are pretty poor results.

    Yeah - they're not great - but, he's going OK against Argentina, SA and Wales, who are credible opponents - he got them to the RWC final and caused a few tremors when Ben Smith was in the bin. Won Super rugby.

    He's not congenitally useless.



  • @Chris-B. said in Deluded or Messiah:

    I
    Judge Chieka on results against all the other opponents.

    64.3%



  • I take the points others have made, but I think Chris is mostly correct. Australia are still ranked 5th in the world and aren't that far behind Ireland or South Africa. I think Cheika is on the precipice. A bad end to the season and you could probably justify sacking him. I expect Australia will probably beat the Saffas once, the Argies twice and everyone except for England and us at the end of the season. They are probably going to stay around 5th in the world which is a fair result given their player pool.


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