This is a fantastic example of a quality 1st XV, on paper at least, but plenty of potential for disaster as soon as this XV is eroded away.
Posts made by shark
RE: Super Rugby News
The Crusaders have re-signed Tim Bateman and signed Mike Delany.
Bateman I expected, but Delany not at all. Presumably we'll let go Marty McKenzie which isn't a bad thing as I don't rate him and don't like his game, but I didn't expect it to be in favour of a 35 year old. I also assume Brett Cameron will be involved in the wider squad which means Mo'unga will be ably spotted next year by a crew of talented midgets and a classy grandpa.
RE: Super Rugby News
Roger Tuivasa-Sheck's focus could soon turn to a different World Cup as he considers switching to the All Blacks.
Ahem, that would be switching to rugby. NZR didn't promise an AB spot to SBW and he needed to prove himself first at NPC/Super rugby level. The same for RTS.
Thats an Aussie paper.
RE: Black Caps in India
Brilliant first game. Where are all the posts knocking Latham now?? Stoked he seems to have found his niche. Nothing wrong with being more Sangakkara than Gilchrist. Great chance to win a series in India now!
That's a strange comment. Latham was terrible for a good chunk of last summer and deserved criticism. He has been replaced as an opener so now we have to use Munro there. He's a good player but his future probably has to be up the order as he is isn't seen as a long term keeper.
It's not strange at all. Despite his potential and, he's copped plenty on here with regards his ability to play ODIs, fullstop. I've always said he or Nicholls needed to be the ODI 'keeper.
RE: Waikato and the Chiefs
The topic was clearly stated by Shark, the significant decline of Waikato while the Chiefs prospered.
What hasn't been discussedmuch is the effect of the change in how super teams are contracted. It seems now that most places are filled before the crunch end of the ITM Cup, making it far less relevant towards Super selections. Tyler Ardron has played well for Canada when free from injury. But, what does an early signing of an overseas player say to local contenders playing in ITM Cup, like Manihera, Parete, Henwood and Halafihi? We know what happened with Halafihi now, and poor old Joe Tupe last year. I can understand Luke Jacobsen, and perhaps Tiaan Falcon as an outsider - but does that impact on Luteru Laulala, Matty Lansdown, Mike Delaney, Steve Donald etc? Signing Tahuriorangi is reclaiming local talent, but not a great motivator for Judd, Levien etc.
I just read Beaver's book, and it reinforced to me how important it is for players to have genuine aspirations, to bring out the best in their play. In answer to previous posters I was stunned last year that Douglas, Tupe, Vaka, Mitch Jacobson, Skeen and Reece all missed both the draft and WTG spots for all franchises. Glad the last 3 have hung around, but the performances of their team in ITM Cup this year will not have helped their case at all.
I see a real correlation between ITM Cup performance and the number of players who have their Super Rugby spots sorted. I see that in 27 Cantabrians and 23 from Taranaki. But, 18 of those Taranaki players played for franchises other than the Chiefs this year. Maybe Waikato needs to assist more players towards pathways outside the Chiefs???
Thank you. Someone that actually got the topic and put forward a really sound suite of points.
The point you make re early contracting being to the detriment of form in the NPC is a really good one. I was really worried from a Crusaders POV that there wouldn't be room in our squad for Brayden Ennor, but they then signed him up (possibly aware at that stage that Ioane wouldn't be back). I worry there won't be room for McKay and Jordan though and they may sign elsewhere. A quota might help this situation, but also may not as the spots available for local players may not match the positions of the form players.
Good debate though.
RE: Waikato and the Chiefs
@shark I don't think you are fully grasping the dynamics outside of Canterbury, which has one comparatively isolated city with an area such as the upper north island.
These days North Harbour, Auckland,Counties, Waikato, BOP almost blend into each other. A player in one of those unions can easily associate with, or play in, the unions either side of him.
Take someone like Beaver as an example. Lives in Counties, has a business in Counties, grew up and started playing for Counties, yet was considered a local when playing for years at Waikato.
As soon as a policy like the one you are advocating is brought in, players from CM and BOP will congregate back at Waikato or endlessly move around between the three unions to manage the quota system for the Chiefs.
We get that with the Crusaders and Canterbury being effectively the Saders A and B sides drives great parochialism and support, but that dynamic doesn't work in a less inbred environment.
Impossible to take anything you say seriously when your post is so heavily influenced by your idiotic and bigoted perception of Canterbury. Says a lot about posters such as yourself that a post about Waikato and the Chiefs comes back to Canterbury bashing.
Sorry @shark that last comment was pure and utter bait and it looks like I caught Jaws.
(I actually thought you would realise)
Passes off as bait or not, I think we all know it's not an isolated comment.
RE: Waikato and the Chiefs
@nepia Point missed? There are already 8 Waikato players in that squad. But how many were there a couple of years later? I'm sure you know as well as I do that there were more players from provinces -
from memory - such as Manawatu and Tasman than Waikato in following years. I'm all about provincialism and tribalism throughout the NZ game, so for mine, that's wrong.
Your points are all over the show. You're claiming the Waikato demise is due to the Chiefs selecting decisions since their rise in 2012 however their squad wasn't even that good in the years before that. There is no point the Chiefs picking Waikato players who are not in the top players in the country just because their franchise is based within that province. And those middle years had particularly poor Waikato teams. Hell, the Canes have a Wellington first policy and they're in the 2nd Division currently.
As for Douglas, you're focusing on one player who has missed out because it suits a narrative you're creating, in a team that is filled with loose forwards from within the franchise boundaries (it's just that they're from BoP, the Naki, and Counties), and only because he was an injury replacement in your team, I doubt you were bemoaning the fact he didn't make the Chiefs after the NPC last year.
Provincialism is not franchise rugby. Maybe you have a belief that they're associated because for so long Canterbury=Crusaders, but for the rest of us they're two different beasts.
I'm IMPLYING the Waikato demise is associated with the Chiefs selection policies since Central contracting began, and I've thrown out a scenario re how the two could be connected, but I've actually asked for opinions from locals.
I'm focusing on Douglas because he's a perfect and very recent example of the kind of player ignored by the Chiefs in lieu of other signings, who was proven to be well and truly up to scratch, but is now gone.
I get that some fans of other franchises may have
disassociated said franchise from the local provinces, more ala US pro sports where it's a rarity to have a local player in a squad, but we're not the US. NZ is a vastly smaller market and there's no reason why the Super structure can't be tinkered with, without breaking it, so that all sides end up with more local talent involved.