AB contenders by position

@taniwharugby Yes, here, but I'm sure some will have missed the little arrow if they don't know how instagram works.

@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:

@taniwharugby Yes, here, but I'm sure some will have missed the little arrow if they don't know how instagram works.

Insta what?

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

That's a pretty big loss but the silverlining is that someone like big Ethan De Groot should get plenty of minutes to show what he's got.

I like Hodgman too, but I'm not sure Karl T or Bower are good enough for key RWC games.

Hardly news but I think AB backs are in good shape other than at 12. Havili and Tuapea are OK, but neither a unit. RTS has real promise but early days. Poihipi has also looked good there for Chiefs. Only TUJ seems to have the thrust to really bend the line running straight, but is raw.
I’d like to see ABs select three 12s for squad. One unit, one classic 2nd five, and one other.

@sparky said in All Blacks 2022:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

That's a pretty big loss but the silverlining is that someone like big Ethan De Groot should get plenty of minutes to show what he's got.

I like Hodgman too, but I'm not sure Karl T or Bower are good enough for key RWC games.

I think there needs to be at least one top grade scrummaging LH, and with Joe out for me that is Karl. Can carry one LH who’s Super level in scrum but great in maul and round park. That is where Hodgman has strong credentials. And one middle of the road, which would be out of Bower, De Groot, Ross, and possibly Norris.

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

@sparky said in All Blacks 2022:

@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2022:

That's a pretty big loss but the silverlining is that someone like big Ethan De Groot should get plenty of minutes to show what he's got.

I like Hodgman too, but I'm not sure Karl T or Bower are good enough for key RWC games.

I think there needs to be at least one top grade scrummaging LH, and with Joe out for me that is Karl. Can carry one LH who’s Super level in scrum but great in maul and round park. That is where Hodgman has strong credentials. And one middle of the road, which would be out of Bower, De Groot, Ross, and possibly Norris.

I don't agree that Karl T is a 'top grade scrummaging LH". Not consistently anyway.

I feel this thread should have a counterpart: What players from other franchises are joining the Blues for your AB 23.

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:

I feel this thread should have a counterpart: What players from other franchises are joining the Blues for your AB 23.

How many in your ABs 23 won't be Blues?

@sparky said in All Blacks 2022:

@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:

I feel this thread should have a counterpart: What players from other franchises are joining the Blues for your AB 23.

How many in your ABs 23 won't be Blues?

Probably about 10. A (starting) hooker, two locks, (starting) halfback, (starting) fullback and (starting) right wing. Four others on the bench, depending on starting second row.

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

Current status :

Hookers : Codie Taylor's loss of form is an issue as Dane Coles is still out with injury. That leaves only ST as international class hooker. Eklund is currently the second best Nr.2.

LHP : Moody's injury leaves a gap. The contenders are Bower, Karl T (not yet on the scene), Hodgman, De Groot and Ross. I would think the last three are the best bet.

THP : Ofa T is way above the rest. Newell could be the answer as his backup as Laulala, Ta'avao and Lomax have been very disappointing.

Locks : Barrett and Retallick are certainties. Vaa'i and Lord should be in the squad. Romano is too old but his physicality would have been helpful against Ireland. Is Whitelock really too old or is it just a lack of form ?

Blindside : Akira Ioane would be my first on the sheet. Jacobson and Blackadder are versatile and have a good workrate. I'd have them in the squad.

Openside : Cane is the captain and is playing well, so he won't be dropped. It's a shame for Papali'i who is the best 7 on current form.

Nr.8 : Ardie Savea is probably considered exclusively as a Nr.8 these days. Sotutu is probably the second best behind him. Sowakula's recent drop of form could alter his chances of winning a call.

Halfbacks : Smith of course. But who behind him ? Christie is the form Nr.9. Fakatava is regaining some form lately, which is not the case for TJP. Weber was poor before his injury.

1st Five : big problem here as there are two world class players (Barrett and Mo'unga) but not necessarily two good 1st Fives, and nobody behind them (Perofeta maybe ?). So the cupboard is really bare.

2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.

Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.

Wings : Reece is consistently good. He'll be on the starting team sheet. Jordan will also be there as there are not a lot of possibilities : Clarke and Bridge (unfortunately). LF is not playing his best rugby, while Savea and Rayasi are rocks and diamonds. Lam as a bolter ?

Fullbacks : JB with Jordan as his backup. Too early for Moorby and Sullivan. Perofeta ?

Good post, but who will be surprised if we don’t see any new caps (eg, TUG, Newell) or recalls (eg, Hodgman).

Obviously haven't looked at stats or anything, but what is the promise everyone sees in RTS? Strikes me as just reputation as he certainly doesn't seem to have looked special in any outings.

@Bones

He was MOTM last game and I think led the backs in metres (perhaps tackles too). I havent seen all of the game but what from I saw he threw one fantastic offload and has shown some quick feet.

If we had a 12 really jumping out, who was already capped, I doubt there would be much talk.

However…

@gt12 holy shit I really wasn't watching closely eh.

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.
Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.

Jeez, we've been really cursed with injuries since Ma'a & Conrad departed.

With ALB out and Goodhue easing himself back in, Reiko is clearly favourite at 13. My guess is Foster will watch how Goodhue goes and if OK, slot him in at 12 over Havili. If he's struggling, Fozzie will probably go back to Havili or go for Jordie Barrett (based on Test experience) with QT as backup.

Like you, I'd like to see Sullivan, TUJ in the squad. Haven't seen enough of RTS and would want a few more games at Super level first. Let's not have another Henry Paul.....

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.
Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.

Jeez, we've been really cursed with injuries since Ma'a & Conrad departed.

Still so gutted for Charlie Ngatai. He was looking outstanding before getting hammered.

Selection hasn't helped, not identifying what you want in midfield and playing people there. Injuries are a major contributor, but I'd argue the selectors have to shoulder more of the blame. Kinda like 6.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Obviously haven't looked at stats or anything, but what is the promise everyone sees in RTS? Strikes me as just reputation as he certainly doesn't seem to have looked special in any outings.

Just his defense alone puts him ahead of Havilli. Lots of potential in attack, that's starting to show on the field, but it's very early.

I would pick him in my squad, but it would be a bet that he will deliver next year. If we want him at the world cup we have to pick him now.

Other factor is that he will have the rest of this season, and mostly likely next season, to build a combination with Reiko who is the best centre in the country.

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

Current status :

Hookers : Codie Taylor's loss of form is an issue as Dane Coles is still out with injury. That leaves only ST as international class hooker. Eklund is currently the second best Nr.2.

LHP : Moody's injury leaves a gap. The contenders are Bower, Karl T (not yet on the scene), Hodgman, De Groot and Ross. I would think the last three are the best bet.

THP : Ofa T is way above the rest. Newell could be the answer as his backup as Laulala, Ta'avao and Lomax have been very disappointing.

Locks : Barrett and Retallick are certainties. Vaa'i and Lord should be in the squad. Romano is too old but his physicality would have been helpful against Ireland. Is Whitelock really too old or is it just a lack of form ?

Blindside : Akira Ioane would be my first on the sheet. Jacobson and Blackadder are versatile and have a good workrate. I'd have them in the squad.

Openside : Cane is the captain and is playing well, so he won't be dropped. It's a shame for Papali'i who is the best 7 on current form.

Nr.8 : Ardie Savea is probably considered exclusively as a Nr.8 these days. Sotutu is probably the second best behind him. Sowakula's recent drop of form could alter his chances of winning a call.

Halfbacks : Smith of course. But who behind him ? Christie is the form Nr.9. Fakatava is regaining some form lately, which is not the case for TJP. Weber was poor before his injury.

1st Five : big problem here as there are two world class players (Barrett and Mo'unga) but not necessarily two good 1st Fives, and nobody behind them (Perofeta maybe ?). So the cupboard is really bare.

2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.

Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.

Wings : Reece is consistently good. He'll be on the starting team sheet. Jordan will also be there as there are not a lot of possibilities : Clarke and Bridge (unfortunately). LF is not playing his best rugby, while Savea and Rayasi are rocks and diamonds. Lam as a bolter ?

Fullbacks : JB with Jordan as his backup. Too early for Moorby and Sullivan. Perofeta ?

Been any official comment about the mix?

I'd assume pack 9/5/7 = 21, so 15 backs. Allows 3 halves, 2 tens, five midfield, five back three.

Been any official comment about the mix?

I'd assume pack 9/5/7 = 21, so 15 backs. Allows 3 halves, 2 tens, five midfield, five back three.

Seven loosies: Cane/DP/Akira/Frizell/Ardie/Sotutu and one of Blackadder/Jacobson (I'm not sure we need too many 'workrate' types)? Hard on Pita Gus. Or do they make a call that Frizell isn't quite top test level and try new blood?

Back Five: Jordie/Jordan/Clarke/Reece/Another. Given Ioane (R) covers wing as well, I'd focus on someone who's comfortable at fullback. Perofeta would add cover at 10. As would Ioane (J). Bridge for me would be triumph of hope over expectation.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:

Obviously haven't looked at stats or anything, but what is the promise everyone sees in RTS? Strikes me as just reputation as he certainly doesn't seem to have looked special in any outings.

We need to wait and see how RTS goes against the better teams, but he does offer a point of difference to the other 12s. I don't think you would need RTS and Havili in the squad.

Havili will be in he squad. Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.
Last year was the room to experiment and without DMac for this series we will need some flexibility in the backswith a need to bolster forwards.

Can’t remember if it’s 32 or 33 in the squad but in the backs we may only see

Halfbacks: Smith, Weber, Christie (Fakatava, Ratima)
First-fives: BB, RM (Perofeta, Ioane)
Midfield: Havili, Tupaea, Goodhue, Ioane (RTS, TUJ)
Outside Back: JB, Jordan, Reece, Clarke

A third 10 will train to learn calls and patterns just in case. I see the midfield as Goodhue, Ioane. Tupaea has increased his bench value with his performances on the wing.
Jordan, Reece and JB the back three.

In an ideal world we would have a spare wing/fullback should say JB get injured and Jordan move to 15 but they may rely on squad cover from Havili and/or having Bridge ready to come in.

Injuries aside I expect to see

Smith
BB
Reece
Goodhue
Ioane
Jordan
JB

Christie/Weber
RM
Tupaea/Havili

Not much room for newbies in this series

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Havili will be in he squad.

He probably will, but I don't see Havili as being a starter, or even a useful player to have in the reserves.

Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.

Is he really? There will be plenty of fullback cover with JB, Jordan and BB. I'd much rather the no.23 jersey is worn by a winger who provides impact and use JB as 2nd 5 cover. LF would also give you cover at centre, for example.

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Havili will be in he squad. Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.
Last year was the room to experiment and without DMac for this series we will need some flexibility in the backswith a need to bolster forwards.

Can’t remember if it’s 32 or 33 in the squad but in the backs we may only see

“36 [players] for the first squad, that’s sort of a standard Steinlager Series-sized squad, but that can change,” Foster told The Breakdown.

Not much room for newbies in this series

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Havili will be in he squad.

He probably will, but I don't see Havili as being a starter, or even a useful player to have in the reserves.

Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.

Is he really? There will be plenty of fullback cover with JB, Jordan and BB. I'd much rather the no.23 jersey is worn by a winger who provides impact and use JB as 2nd 5 cover. LF would also give you cover at centre, for example.

I expect Havili to be there, mainly because he brings experience, but also because he seems to have formed a good combo with Ritchie. Even more so if the combo with Goodhue gels.

RTS is reasonably physical and footwork is a point of difference. If he's a chance of RWC needs a shot now. I'd be inclined to also give TUJ a shot. Hard on Tuapea, but I think they alreday know what they're getting with him.

@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Havili will be in he squad.

He probably will, but I don't see Havili as being a starter, or even a useful player to have in the reserves.

Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.

Is he really? There will be plenty of fullback cover with JB, Jordan and BB. I'd much rather the no.23 jersey is worn by a winger who provides impact and use JB as 2nd 5 cover. LF would also give you cover at centre, for example.

You need a wing/centre or fullback/centre in the 23 IMO. Plus one more in the squad that knows the ropes.
Pretty sure they will go with Havili’s experience over bringing in LF. Agree that he’s not in the 23 though.
I quite like the idea of Tupaea on the bench for options. Can put him in the centres with RI moving to wing, can put him on the wing with Jordan moving to fullback and JB to 12 etc. doesn’t even need to be a formal position but players moving into spots as the situation dictates.
If LF had been selected last year the job may be his but this is going to be a tight series and no newbies are screaming out to be included in the 23.

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Havili will be in he squad. Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.
Last year was the room to experiment and without DMac for this series we will need some flexibility in the backswith a need to bolster forwards.

Can’t remember if it’s 32 or 33 in the squad but in the backs we may only see

“36 [players] for the first squad, that’s sort of a standard Steinlager Series-sized squad, but that can change,” Foster told The Breakdown.

Not much room for newbies in this series

Squad newbies maybe but not in the 23 and I would rather see forward options brought in formally with backs on cover.

Unless we win the first two tests there’s not much ability to blood players this time.

@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:

@gt12 holy shit I really wasn't watching closely eh.

No change there.

36 player squad. OK room for some of the backups to be official. A 10, a midfielder, one more outside back.
20/16 split?

8 front rowers
5 locks
7 loosies

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

@pakman said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

Havili will be in he squad. Remember that this will be a more traditional squad number (as opposed to the bloated squads of last year) and he brings utility and experience.
Last year was the room to experiment and without DMac for this series we will need some flexibility in the backswith a need to bolster forwards.

Can’t remember if it’s 32 or 33 in the squad but in the backs we may only see

“36 [players] for the first squad, that’s sort of a standard Steinlager Series-sized squad, but that can change,” Foster told The Breakdown.

Not much room for newbies in this series

Squad newbies maybe but not in the 23 and I would rather see forward options brought in formally with backs on cover.

Unless we win the first two tests there’s not much ability to blood players this time.

Tend to agree re 23. Seems unlikely a new loosie will get a look in. But Ireland have physical and ball handling locks/props, so good to let Lord/Vaa'i and De Groot/Ross to get some exposure (easier after 2-0).

In backs, I think we need to try newbie in 23 at 12, but unlikely in first test or at 0-1.

I can only see a max of 3 newbies in the initial squad with one or 2 props needed and one three quarter assuming Goodhue and Clarke return. But the races for those spots are far from over with the big matches in next few weeks counting for a lot. Newell seems a lock in to me and Ross should join him. But plenty of contenders there. LF needs to up his workrate to earn it perhaps but any one of TUJ RTS Nankivell or B Sullivan could force their way in. Elsewhere Perofeta Eklund and Big Red might be next up as injury cover.
I will be watching the props closely for their impact in the big clashes.

Question - has Fakatava's eligibility for the ABs this year been sorted out?

Last year, when he got injured it seemed like new rules were going to exclude him until 2023.

Google doesn't immediately throw up something saying he's clear to be selected.

@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:

@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2022:

@cgrant said in All Blacks 2022:

2nd Five : Havili's loss of form and confidence could cost him his place in the squad. I'd like Foster to try something new with TUJ and/or RTS, along with Tupaea.
Centre : Rieko and Sullivan are the best performers. I would be glad to see the latter as a bolter in the next squad. Let's see how Goodhue come back during the next week.

Jeez, we've been really cursed with injuries since Ma'a & Conrad departed.

Still so gutted for Charlie Ngatai He was looking outstanding before getting hammered.

Selection hasn't helped, not identifying what you want in midfield and playing people there. Injuries are a major contributor, but I'd argue the selectors have to shoulder more of the blame. Kinda like 6.

What, he didn’t save NZ rugby after all?

RTS has a few work ons in terms of not coming out of the line and communication on defence. But in terms of effort and involvement, I like what is happening. Could be a good impact player to start out with.

@ARHS said in All Blacks 2022:

I can only see a max of 3 newbies in the initial squad with one or 2 props needed and one three quarter assuming Goodhue and Clarke return. But the races for those spots are far from over with the big matches in next few weeks counting for a lot. Newell seems a lock in to me and Ross should join him. But plenty of contenders there. LF needs to up his workrate to earn it perhaps but any one of TUJ RTS Nankivell or B Sullivan could force their way in. Elsewhere Perofeta Eklund and Big Red might be next up as injury cover.
I will be watching the props closely for their impact in the big clashes.

By Big Red do you mean this year’s waste of space in the Blues.?
He has been low quality in an area that is lacking standouts.

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

By Big Red do you mean this year’s waste of space in the Blues.?
He has been low quality in an area that is lacking standouts.

He's been playing with an injury for most of the year. He was one of the best players on the field in the 25-0 game against the Chiefs

@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

By Big Red do you mean this year’s waste of space in the Blues.?
He has been low quality in an area that is lacking standouts.

He's been playing with an injury for most of the year. He was one of the best players on the field in the 25-0 game against the Chiefs

Then he needs to recover from injury not be selected in the ABs worn out even further.

@Crucial

He has recovered. Did you see that Chiefs game? What did you think of his performance against the Chiefs loosies?

@Duluth said in All Blacks 2022:

@Crucial

He has recovered. Did you see that Chiefs game? What did you think of his performance against the Chiefs loosies?

It was very good.
Much better than he played against the Drua in his last outing

Even in your Blues fans MOTM points for the season he has 1 point and sits last on the table.
He’s another Blackadder. Can turn out a good one then look ineffective.
Good player but not what the ABs need.

@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:

It was very good.
Much better than he played against the Drua in his last outing
Even in your Blues fans MOTM points for the season he has 1 point and sits last on the table.

Yes. He had a tricky injury early in the year.

He was in and out of the side, bracketed in some games and was a late scratching in another. I thought during that time the Blues should've been playing Plumtree.

They game him a couple of games off to recover. Since then he dominated against the Chiefs, had a strong game against Crusaders and a quiet game against the Drua.

I doubt he'll make the AB squad. However he certainly hasn't been a 'waste of space' and he wasn't 'low quality' vs the Chiefs or Crusaders

@Duluth I think that both Robinson and Sowakula have not been consistent enough lately - but are the ones most capable of sticking their hands up for a squad berth. Just no space with 8 incumbents playing well enough in loosies.