Now that the emotion has died down

@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking

Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them

@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking

Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them

I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@taniwharugby said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@nzzp said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Three fullbacks but we got hammered in the kicking game? May as well pick Clarke, Sivivatu and Masaga if you don't care about kicking

Kinda my point, similar to the semi v England, we picked a team with strengths, yet never played for them

I was told in this thread that Bridge was selected because he has a good kick chase. Funny how the only time an Aussie receiver was placed under pressure from a kick was when Clarke came on.

Clarke's chase from the first kickoff he was on the field was electric - he just smashed the receiver inside the 22. Great effort

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO

Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.

@Tim said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

We've had no penetration since Ioane went off.

Until Clarke came on. Love in a few years to see him at 12...

The disappointing aspect was that the starting team was never selected to penetrate. The coaches were way too conservative and took the gamble that shutting the Aussies down with experience and 'solidity' would be sufficient. We could then feed off their errors. It kind of worked for 41 minutes but then they found their own rhythm and we started to lose ours.
We needed a 10 point buffer at half time given the conditions so containment was a poor strategy.

@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Kirwan said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

So who would have though James Fucking O’Conner would have completely outplayed an All Black ten?

the new mature James O'Connor is actually producing on his never doubted talent

I'm pleased because he certainly lost his way big time. Kudos to Rennie for handing him the cutter.

@Machpants said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Stag 40% possession is pretty common for the ABs for years, that's not a real problem. It's getting through the line, nobody was really doing that

Seemed there was a deliberate plan to cut out Jack and go straight to Roane.

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I've calmed down a bit now, having had to go pay $430 to get my daughter's macbook fixed after she spilled water on it last week.

That whole process - forking out money to Apple - was more enjoyable than watching Williams referee.

And before you get going: I completed my field test with NSW Rugby and am an accredited ref so I come from a position of knowledge on this. So... yeah... suck my balls all of you armchair fucking refs

As an introductory note: how AFG missed that foot on the line will forever be a mystery. You make a living out of this Angus. The lines are nice and straight. Stick your fucking flag up. Does it make some kind of cosmic justice thing when Ioane refuses to mess up his hair while dropping the ball later? No. It does not.

Some refs - a lot of the French ones - just let players sort it out, mostly. Sometimes that can looks weird, but then they make a decision and you figure they're just keeping the threshold for intervention high i.e. they don't want to be the star attraction. Sometimes the decision made is a head scratcher but you sort of accept French people are weird and move on.

Williams tends to avoid decisions whenever he can - even when it is blindingly obvious that a decision needs to be made. In the first half Mounga gets rid of the ball and a full second later Wilson absolutely clatters him - right in front. Williams sort of puts his arm out and then does nothing. Just gets on with things. Multiple tackles from both teams go high - not dangerously so, but potential for escalation which should be ruled on early to set a marker - and he does nothing.

He rightly pings Tupou for being a shitwit at ruck time (twice ) because it is well past the back of the ruck when he finishes trying to piss off Aaron Smith (a noble pursuit). But I counted at least three times for each team where a cleanout happened from the side of the ruck and did zero.

Penalises Koroibete for going off his feet when no AB was contesting the ball, then lets it go for another Wallaby player in the same situation and says nobody was contesting the ball

Of course, there are the big ones - the biggest of which is probably the two scrums later in the second half where Alalaatoa hands out a complete reaming to Karl T (who packed at an angle, pushed at an angle, and got folded into an angle on the ground), and tells the Wobs "you're not getting it", then does Sio for exactly the same thing at the next scrum. What were the fucking ARs doing while Alalaatoa was introducing Big Karl's forehead to the turf?

I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the referee review. It isn't easy - I know that from personal experience even at my gumby level of refereeing. But there are head scratchers and then there is out and out inconsistency that leads to incompetence.

EDIT: oh and the 2 short arms against Australia for going early at scrum time? Every fucking ref knows that the second one is a penalty you tit.

Didn't you think the Wallabies showed some steel? Sure, lineouts in particular and ruck work need some attention, but I'd have thought you'd feel in with a chance next week?

@NTA Sent last before reading this, which I generally agree with!

I attended at the stadium, had a seat almost behind the posts.

Interesting that from that angle and distance cannot observe any of the critisims of e.g. Mo'ouga and Savea etc that seem common. TBH, caketin is pretty crap.

My observations from end on. Early on in game - I thought Ioane bombed a certain 80 m try by going himself and not setting up Jordie (although doubts about Jordie's top end speed to go that distance). I was out of my seat, I was that certain the try was on.

I'd also think up-and-unders would be good options in swirling wind, and we tried a couple early both from 10 and box kick. But my end-on observation - my god the modern defence is so expert at blocking and shepherding chasers that it is no longer a good percentage option. Which is a shame as it adds variety to the sport. When that first up-an-under went up I got very excited but deflated when seeing how little pressure the chasers can put on.

I thought the NZ back 3 kick catching of the deep kicks in the swirling wind was excellent (apart from that god damn dropout).

@Rapido said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I attended at the stadium, had a seat almost behind the posts.

Interesting that from that angle and distance cannot observe any of the critisims of e.g. Mo'ouga and Savea etc that seem common. TBH, caketin is pretty crap.

My observations from end on. Early on in game - I thought Ioane bombed a certain 80 m try by going himself and not setting up Jordie (although doubts about Jordie's top end speed to go that distance). I was out of my seat, I was that certain the try was on.

I'd also think up and unders would be goo options in swirling wind, and we tried a couple early both from 10 and box kick. But my end-on observation - my god the modern defence is so expert at blocking and shepherding chasers that it is no longer a a good percentage option. Which is a shame as it adds variety to the sport. When that first up an under went up I got very excited but deflated when seeing how little pressure the chasers can put on.

I though the NZ back 3 kick catching of the deep kicks in the swirling wind was excellent (apart from that god damn dropout).

Interesting observation on Jordie. Does he take a bit longer than others to hit top speed.....or is he actually just not that quick ?

I think a backline always has potential issues when the quickest guy is wearing number 13....

Hard to know what to make of that game, Wallabies should have won about three times, and should have lost about five times, and so on the balance of things I'll take the draw.

I was nervous about our team. For all the focus on AB selections here (and there were some definite head-scratchers) we picked a lot of new combos as well as three debutants and a few one-gamers. Normally the Wallabies take 2-3 games to get rid of the early rust, so to come out and face the ABs in Wellington first up... it had disaster written all over it.

But we played good, smart, committed rugby. I was really impressed with our kicking game, thanks to Banks, Toomua and White we genuinely used it as a weapon for the first time in what feels like decades (finally abandoning this 'Australian way' garbage). Also super impressed with Wilson and Daugunu in their first games, and JOC's control and patience at 10.

And then it came down to one kick from Hodge, which was a bees proverbial away from being one of the greatest place kicks of all time.

@rotated said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Nepia said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@rotated said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

The leader in the clubhouse for worst first year is Laurie Mains' and Fozzie ain't off to a good start.

Bit hard on Laurie, he had to mould together a new team against the current RWC holders after a disastrous ABs RWC campaign rife with division - and he lost 2-1 in one of the greatest and closest Bledisloe Cup series ever (I think the exact same number of points were scored by both teams and the biggest margin was 3 or 4).

It wasn't just the Bledisloe; they lost the midweek game to NSW, lost to World XV then lost to SA on reentry. They should have lost to Ireland in Dunedin that year too?

Your memory is faulty, they didn't lose to the Boks and it was actually Sydney they lost to in the midweek game, not NSW.

I remember when Wallabies used to select the likes of DHP on the wing and the ABs would select strike wingers.

Now it's the reverse - what a complete mess.

@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I remember when Wallabies used to select the likes of DHP on the wing and the ABs would select strike wingers.

Now it's the reverse - what a complete mess.

We're still not perfect. The XV on the weekend had the Rebels 10 at 12, last year's Wallaby 13 at 10, the Reds number 8 at blindside, and last year's blindside in the second row.

@MN5 said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Rapido said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I attended at the stadium, had a seat almost behind the posts.

Interesting that from that angle and distance cannot observe any of the critisims of e.g. Mo'ouga and Savea etc that seem common. TBH, caketin is pretty crap.

My observations from end on. Early on in game - I thought Ioane bombed a certain 80 m try by going himself and not setting up Jordie (although doubts about Jordie's top end speed to go that distance). I was out of my seat, I was that certain the try was on.

I'd also think up and unders would be goo options in swirling wind, and we tried a couple early both from 10 and box kick. But my end-on observation - my god the modern defence is so expert at blocking and shepherding chasers that it is no longer a a good percentage option. Which is a shame as it adds variety to the sport. When that first up an under went up I got very excited but deflated when seeing how little pressure the chasers can put on.

I though the NZ back 3 kick catching of the deep kicks in the swirling wind was excellent (apart from that god damn dropout).

Interesting observation on Jordie. Does he take a bit longer than others to hit top speed.....or is he actually just not that quick ?

I think a backline always has potential issues when the quickest guy is wearing number 13....

seeing Mitch Hunt smoke him in the last round of super rugby id say he at least isn't a fast accelerator, he closed the gap but then he was also running the cutoff line so had a shorter distance...so im going to go with im sure he's faster than most...but not up there with real quick outside backs, 5 mins in

i'd like to see a straight spring between him and BB who we know is lightning

@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Didn't you think the Wallabies showed some steel? Sure, lineouts in particular and ruck work need some attention, but I'd have thought you'd feel in with a chance next week?

In short, yes.

As a couple of articles have pointed out: 8-3 at the half turning into 13-3 could have seen previous teams crumble in those conditions, but we stuck it out and showed a lot of character to get to within inches of a win.

@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO

Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.

Karl packed crooked to start with - as a LHP you can't be at that angle on the engage because any forward momentum from that point makes you look bad.

Unless the ref is a screaming pile of incompetence.

@Nepia said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Nice.

I'm glad the animosity between the actual teams seems to have gone now ... maybe due to coaching change?

Hansen is gone so there is no point dwelling on his shortcomings as a person.

@Hooroo said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Oh no! A new amateur ref who suddenly thinks he knows it all. The worst kind of armchair commentator!

Show me your qualifications, and we'll talk.

@NTA Is there a confirmation bias awareness component to that qualification?

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO

Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.

Karl packed crooked to start with - as a LHP you can't be at that angle on the engage because any forward momentum from that point makes you look bad.

Can't comment on the scrums - but, if you watch Big Karl in general play, he basically just takes up space.

Unless they're concerned about Hodgman's scrummaging, I'd put Alex on the bench next week.

@barbarian said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I remember when Wallabies used to select the likes of DHP on the wing and the ABs would select strike wingers.

Now it's the reverse - what a complete mess.

We're still not perfect. The XV on the weekend had the Rebels 10 at 12, last year's Wallaby 13 at 10, the Reds number 8 at blindside, and last year's blindside in the second row.

That's a bit misleading though.

Toomua has played a heap of rugby at 12. He's 10 for Rebels because he's the best option - if they had JOC he'd be playing 12.

In the case of JOC and LSL they have both been playing 10 and lock this season respectively and both played well - this year LSL has clearly showed he is a lock not a 6 - can shift there during the game perhaps but very much in the Scott Barrett mould.

@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.

Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.

Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.

Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.

Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.

I took it as 50% booing the officials for not giving a penalty and 50% booing the Wallabies for not rolling over and dying like good little West Islanders

@African-Monkey said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@junior He just hates playing at test level altogether judging by his first 19 tests. Why not just let him enjoy himself by bullying the domestic scene like he always does.

He's like the Mathew Sinclair of NZ rugby.

It’s not even 2021 and we already have our broken record award winner

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.

Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.

Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well

But you’re just a grumpy old man ?

@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.

Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.

Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well

But you’re just a grumpy old man ?

Correct.
Your point?

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO

Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.

Karl packed crooked to start with - as a LHP you can't be at that angle on the engage because any forward momentum from that point makes you look bad.

Unless the ref is a screaming pile of incompetence.

Will check out when I rewatch!

@Billy-Tell said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Mounga had a really poor game I thought given the weather. I also think goodhue should be 13 or not in the team. Best memory will be Clarke’s cameo. O for awesome. You’d have to think BB to 10 and JB to 15 for the next game.

On Mo'unga's bad/quiet game, only NTA has mentioned the late hits on him. I counted three times where RM was down in back play (Wilson's late hit, being clattered in the lead up to Reiko's non-try and then twice in the second half) after late hits in addition to the big hit early (11 mins?) from Toomua.

As for centres, haven't almost all of the AB's centre choices in recent years been forced by injuries? ALB/Laumape/SBW/Crotty all had injuries at various points during 2018 and 2019 while Reiko has only begun his move to centre in 2020. Goodhue has ended up in 12/13 by being available.

@ACT-Crusader Thank you sir ?

@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA Is there a confirmation bias awareness component to that qualification?

Always Just like Kiwis being Custodians Of The Game

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@ARHS said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I thought the crowd reaction at the fulltime whistle was absolutely disgraceful. Ashamed to be a kiwi from that. Both teams gave it all they had to go for a win - for 9 minutes beyond in a tight game. Fantastic effort players and officials.

Might be an unpopular thing to say here, but that kind of crowd behaviour is not unexpected from NZ these days. Anecdotally have heard it from many nationalities as I get around the club scene here in Sydney.

Don't know if it is a generational thing, but the level of boorishness in rugby crowds is generally increasing. Throw in the ABs success and it seems like some fans feel they've been given licence to think their nation owns the game.

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.

I was there and I groaned when we knocked it on forcing a static defensive ruck on own line. That was when I knew the game was over and it was a draw. Good 30 seconds to to compose yourself before the actual final whistle. Chance to then acknowledge them emptying the tank for 8 extra minutes.

There is little rugby-intelligence in an NZ crowd anymore, IMO.

Barely anyone cheers or claps the little moments that creates or switches momentum or relieves danger; The bundle into touch, the perfect exit, the finger tip kick catch in swirling wind, a counter maul or hold up in the tackle, the driving maul. I'd say turnovers are the only thing acknowledged but only if it is a penalty turnover. An in-game turnover is probably too subtle for the morons to notice. Some of the crowd might also notice a lineout against the throw as it is obvious.

Just sit there and wait for a try or for the music. There to be entertained not to participate. But in saying that 75% of people didn't boo, because 75% make no noise anyway ....

Doesn't help that your're so far from the action and the DJ kills it anyway as soon as a rare moment of crowd participation happens, seems a bit futile, maybe the other NZ grounds are better.

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.

I took it as 50% booing the officials for not giving a penalty and 50% booing the Wallabies for not rolling over and dying like good little West Islanders

That chip on your shoulder is really coming out this morning isn't it?

@Chris-B said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@pakman said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

Bullshit fucking penalty. We folded Karl T like a cheap deck chair at the previous scrum and ZERO

Looked to me like Oz TH bored in and hooker also shoved diagonally left. Karl T in effect was peeled off. Some refs would penalise Wallabies for that, but because of the optics was surprised ABs weren't.

Karl packed crooked to start with - as a LHP you can't be at that angle on the engage because any forward momentum from that point makes you look bad.

Can't comment on the scrums - but, if you watch Big Karl in general play, he basically just takes up space.

Unless they're concerned about Hodgman's scrummaging, I'd put Alex on the bench next week.

i was seriously concerned about Karl in those final moments. When ever he was involved i thought there was a mild case for a penalty. He seemed to just flop sideways on the top of quite a few rucks. He really did add nothing

@mariner4life said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@NTA said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

@Crucial said in Bledisloe One: Wellington, October 11:

I don't disagree with any of that but must say that a fair deal of the booing right at the end would have been reactionary. The excitement and entertainment they paid for was cut off by a decision to take a draw. I would have been disappointed and let out a groan as well.

I took it as 50% booing the officials for not giving a penalty and 50% booing the Wallabies for not rolling over and dying like good little West Islanders

That chip on your shoulder is really coming out this morning isn't it?

You're just shitty because you didn't win.