TSF's Best World Cup XV
Voting Criteria
Players were judged on performances in Rugby World Cups, in the position listed.
Some players qualified for multiuple positions but we restricted every player to their best position. In most cases that was obvious - Wilson on the wing not fullback, Mils at fullback etc
The Front Row
Tony Woodcock, Sean Fitzpatrick & Olo Brown
| Loosehead | Hooker | Tighthead |
|---|---|---|
| Woodcock 49% | Fitzpatrick 84% | Brown 49% |
| McDowall 37% | Coles 10% | Franks 17% |
| Dowd 7% | Mealamu 4% | Drake 15% |
| Hewett 5% | Oliver 2% | Hayman 12% |
| Hoeft 2% | Loe 7% |
Locks
Brodie Retallick & Sam Whitelock
| Lock (4) | Lock (5) |
|---|---|
| Retallick 55% | Whitelock 73% |
| Thorn 25% | G Whetton 20% |
| Jones 16% | R Brooke 7% |
Loose Forwards
Jerome Kaino, Richie McCaw & Zinzan Brooke
| Blindside | Openside | No 8 |
|---|---|---|
| Kaino 92% | McCaw 62% | Z Brooke 51% |
| Thorne 6% | Jones 38% | Shelford 26% |
| A Whetton 2% | Read 23% |
Halfback and First Five
Graeme Bachop & Dan Carter
| Halfback | First Five |
|---|---|
| Bachop 43% | Carter 81% |
| Kirk 26% | Mehrtens 10% |
| A Smith 17% | Fox 6% |
| Weepu 10% | Spencer 2% |
| Marshall 5% |
The Midfield
Ma'a Nonu & Conrad Smith
| Second Five | Centre |
|---|---|
| Nonu 91% | C Smith 54% |
| Taylor 5% | Stanley 27% |
| Little 2% | Bunce 15% |
| Mauger 2% | Cullen 5% |
The Outside Backs
Jonah Lomu, John Kirwan & John Gallagher
| Left Wing | Right Wing | Fullback |
|---|---|---|
| Lomu 96% | Kirwan 83% | Gallagher 36% |
| J Savea 2% | Wilson 8% | Osbourne 33% |
| Kahui 2% | Milner-Skudder 6% | Dagg 18% |
| Jane 2% | Mils 7% | |
| B Smith 4% | ||
| MacDonald 2% |
Lomu not at 100%?
- Yeahtheboys voted for Savea
- Siam voted for Kahui
What would a Second XV look like?
1 Steve McDowall 2 Dane Coles 3 Owen Franks 4 Brad Thorn 5 Gary Whetton 6 Rueben Thorne 7 Michael Jones 8 Wayne Shelford 9 David Kirk 10 Andrew Mehrtens 11 Savea/Kahui 12 Warwick Taylor 13 Joe Stanley 14 Jeff Wilson 15 Glen Osborne
Are TSF members better than the plebs?
Or just older..
We did these polls so we could compare our results to the general public voting at allblacks.com
So how do the XV's compare?
| TSF XV | Public XV | |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Woodcock | Woodcock |
| 2 | Fitzpatrick | Mealamu |
| 3 | Brown | Franks |
| 4 | Retallick | Retallick |
| 5 | Whitelock | Whitelock |
| 6 | Kaino | Kaino |
| 7 | Mccaw | Mccaw |
| 8 | Z Brooke | Z Brooke |
| 9 | Bachop | A Smith |
| 10 | Carter | Carter |
| 11 | Lomu | Lomu |
| 12 | Nonu | Nonu |
| 13 | Smith | Smith |
| 14 | Kirwan | Kirwan |
| 15 | Gallagher | B Smith |
Not that different. The public vote seems to be slightly more friendly to recent players
The players in the TSF XV but not in the public vote: Fitzpatrick, Brown, Bachop, Gallagher
- Mealamu was 3rd on the TSF poll
- Franks was 2nd on the TSF poll
- A Smith was 3rd on the TSF poll
- B Smith was 5th on the TSF poll
@Duluth said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
https://www.thesilverfern.com/posts/duluth/2019-09/tsf-s-best-world-cup-xv
All Blacks best RWC players according to TSF members
1 Woodcock
2 Fitzpatrick
3 Brown
4 Retallick
5 Whitelock
6 Kaino
7 McCaw
8 Z Brooke
9 Bachop
10 Carter
11 Lomu
12 Nonu
13 Smith
14 Kirwan
15 Gallaher
They would be crazy good. Time for a 2nd xv?
Based on my votes:
1- Steve McDowall
2- Sean Fitzpatrick
3- Owen Franks
4- Brad Thorn
5- Sam Whitelock
6- Jerome Kaino
7- Richie McCaw
8- Zinzan Brooke
9- Graeme Bachop
10- Andrew Mehrtens
11- Jonah Lomu
12- Ma’a Nonu
13- Joe Stanley
14- John Kirwan
15- Glen Osbourne
@ACT-Crusader Based on your normal selections, there's an awful lot wrong with that team.
@ACT-Crusader said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
Based on my votes:
1- Steve McDowall
2- Sean Fitzpatrick
3- Owen Franks
4- Brad Thorn
5- Sam Whitelock
6- Jerome Kaino
7- Richie McCaw
8- Zinzan Brooke
9- Graeme Bachop
10- Andrew Mehrtens
11- Jonah Lomu
12- Ma’a Nonu
13- Joe Stanley
14- John Kirwan
15- Glen Osbourne
Really?
@Snowy said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@ACT-Crusader Based on your normal selections, there's an awful lot wrong with that team.
60% correct. Not bad.....
@canefan said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
60% correct. Not bad.....
That would be 40% correct. 60% incorrect. So an "F" in US terms. Really quite bad.
I'm not coming to you to get my teeth done (kidding).
@Snowy said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@canefan said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
60% correct. Not bad.....
That would be 40% correct. 60% incorrect. So an "F" in US terms. Really quite bad.
I'm not coming to you to get my teeth done (kidding).
He got 9/15 didn't he?
@Duluth said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
I was surprised that there was only four differences between our team and the public voting:
Fitzpatrick, Olo Brown, Bachop, Gallagher in the TSF team
Who were the 4 public picks? A bit of recency bias I'd expect? The public are not as discerning and mindful of history as the esteemed minds that inhabit the Fern 
@canefan said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Duluth said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
I was surprised that there was only four differences between our team and the public voting:
Fitzpatrick, Olo Brown, Bachop, Gallagher in the TSF team
Who were the 4 public picks? A bit of recency bias I'd expect? The public are not as discerning and mindful of history as the esteemed minds that inhabit the Fern
Well, to be fair, we've won two world cups in the last 8 years, so the recency bias is entirely explicable. What I don't understand, is the world cup winners who lost out to world cup losers... For example, Olo Brown was a great AB, but Owen Franks has won two world cups. It's not even a contest as far as I'm concerned.
It's clear to me that too many people have voted based on performances outside of world cups. In most cases, the top world cup performers have been selected, but some of the next in line selections are baffling (Mehrts getting more votes than Grant Fox, FFS!).
@Smuts Whitelock was pretty immense in 1.5 finals...that we won 
Plus so good in 2011 that he kept Williams out of the starting side.
@canefan said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
He got 9/15 didn't he?
9/15 were not Crusaders, and therefore %60 were incorrect for an ACT-Crusader team was what I was getting at.
@Duluth Weird that the public poll didn't put Sean Fitzpatrick as the best RWC Hooker. Best player in that position for nearly ten years at international level.
@sparky said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Duluth Weird that the public poll didn't put Sean Fitzpatrick as the best RWC Hooker. Best player in that position for nearly ten years at international level.
It doesn’t matter about his 10 years, it was his RWC performances that should’ve got him the vote. Got mine for his 87 and 95 Cup showings.
@sparky I watched highlights of all the AB games from 87 and I think we might be looking at Gallagher through rose tinted specs. Good yeah but better than Osbourne, Dagg or Smith - don't think so. Not based on what I saw of his RWC
@dogmeat one of the more surprising ones for sure given the names you mention, particularly the performances of Osbourne in 95 and Dagg 2011.
To rate players in the ‘87 tournament, you’d pretty much have to have been born by 1970 to have seen that RWC and grade the players with any degree of knowledge, which means you’d have to be nearly 50 years old now.
Curious... what is the breakdown of Fern subscribers above/below 40? There’re a few oldfucks here (raises hand slowly), yet my guess is anybody with a sharp recollection of 1987 would be a distinct minority.
@Salacious-Crumb said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
To rate players in the ‘87 tournament, you’d pretty much have to have been born by 1970 to have seen that RWC and grade the players with any degree of knowledge, which means you’d have to be nearly 50 years old now.
Curious... what is the breakdown of Fern subscribers above/below 40? There’re a few oldfucks here (raises hand slowly), yet my guess is anybody with a sharp recollection of 1987 would be a distinct minority.
Set up a poll!
@Salacious-Crumb said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
Curious... what is the breakdown of Fern subscribers above/below 40? There’re a few oldfucks here (raises hand slowly), yet my guess is anybody with a sharp recollection of 1987 would be a distinct minority.
@kirwan can post the google analytics. From memory the age breakdown is heavily in the 35-50 range
@Hooroo I think the last time there was a vox pop on this you young scallywags didn't have a category for me...……
@dogmeat said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Hooroo I think the last time there was a vox pop on this you young scallywags didn't have a category for me...……
I was thinking that when I did the post. There were a couple of you. I think if we have brackets of 10 years up to 100, we should be covered this time
@Hooroo Laugh while you can piston wristed gibbon A helluva lot of you pricks are now older (not wiser) than I was when I joined TSF.
You'll be off to the clinic for your first colonoscopy before you know it.
@dogmeat said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Hooroo Laugh while you can piston wristed gibbon
You'll be off to the clinic for your first colonoscopy before you know it.
I'm not arguing with that
@dogmeat said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
You'll be off to the clinic for your first colonoscopy before you know it
pretty sure half the blokes here regularly volunteer for them, just not at clinics
@Duluth said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
Curious... what is the breakdown of Fern subscribers above/below 40? There’re a few oldfucks here (raises hand slowly), yet my guess is anybody with a sharp recollection of 1987 would be a distinct minority.
@kirwan can post the google analytics. From memory the age breakdown is heavily in the 35-50 range
Stats for the last year;
45-54 = 24%
35-44 = 24%
24-34 = 23%
55-64 = 13%
65+ = 8%
18-24 = 5%
So close 30% under 35 but more over 65 than under 24. Seems about right to me
More surprising to me is 25% female, but that doesn't feel reflected in the posts which is a shame. Hopefully there are regular posters that are female that are just not advertising the fact (probably wisely).
32% New Zealand based posters. Next biggest chunk is the US, another surprise. Third is Poland!
For the developers out there, IE is down to 1.24% of this year's traffic. Die Demon, Die.
And shout out to the user using the SeaMonkey browser.
Some interesting stats in there, traffic by unique users is the most we've ever had. We commonly get to numbers that we used to only get on World Cup knockout stages back in 2007.
@Kirwan said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
Some interesting stats in there, traffic by unique users is the most we've ever had. We commonly get to numbers that we used to only get on World Cup knockout stages back in 2007.
The last week or so has been a little quiet but we still have the same traffic as last years peak (the NZ vs Eng match)
A couple of weeks ago we were doubling the traffic for the same period last year.
The majority of viewers are on their phone now. An unfortunate side effect of that is that is people on phones post less than those with keyboards.
@Kirwan said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Duluth said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Salacious-Crumb said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
Curious... what is the breakdown of Fern subscribers above/below 40? There’re a few oldfucks here (raises hand slowly), yet my guess is anybody with a sharp recollection of 1987 would be a distinct minority.
@kirwan can post the google analytics. From memory the age breakdown is heavily in the 35-50 range
Stats for the last year;
45-54 = 24%
35-44 = 24%
24-34 = 23%
55-64 = 13%
65+ = 8%
18-24 = 5%So close 30% under 35 but more over 65 than under 24. Seems about right to me
More surprising to me is 25% female, but that doesn't feel reflected in the posts which is a shame. Hopefully there are regular posters that are female that are just not advertising the fact (probably wisely).
32% New Zealand based posters. Next biggest chunk is the US, another surprise. Third is Poland!
For the developers out there, IE is down to 1.24% of this year's traffic. Die Demon, Die.
And shout out to the user using the SeaMonkey browser.Some interesting stats in there, traffic by unique users is the most we've ever had. We commonly get to numbers that we used to only get on World Cup knockout stages back in 2007.
we have people under 24 here? Actually, i am shocked we have people under 30 here!
@Snowy they are all over Instagram...so I guess lots of them, some bound to come here looking for manly conversations
@junior said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
Well, to be fair, we've won two world cups in the last 8 years, so the recency bias is entirely explicable. What I don't understand, is the world cup winners who lost out to world cup losers... For example, Olo Brown was a great AB, but Owen Franks has won two world cups. It's not even a contest as far as I'm concerned.
Winning a RWC doesn't correlate with awesomeness. FFS, Olo was the greatest TH prop in the world for nearly two RWC cycles, with daylight second. Straightest back in the game, an absolute unit.
Franks O is good, but I don't think at his peak he was as far ahead of his peers as Olo was. Legend in the game, adn rightly so.
@Kirwan I thought at 57 I was one of the few old bastards well there you go , surprise.
@Snowy said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
I'm a bit shocked at all of the Polish chicks...
Did someone say Polish chicks?
@jegga said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
@Snowy said in Results of the RWC XV voting:
I'm a bit shocked at all of the Polish chicks...
Did someone say Polish chicks?
